Glass Plate Negatives from the 1900's

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GrahamS
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Glass Plate Negatives from the 1900's

Post by GrahamS »

While out and about browsing for old cameras, I found these glass plate negatives at a charity shop in Welwyn Garden City. I paid five pounds in coin of the realm. They were lying in the bottom of a box of junk, loose and unprotected. They had had a hard life, because they were all badly scratched and scored and had marks caused by fungus and spilled liquids. I have spent many hours restoring the images as best I can, removing the most severe defects. I have retained the edges so as to leave a sense of the original glass plates.

What: The plates measure 58mm x 43mm. The closest Imperial glass plate size that I can find was 1 5/8 x 2 1/8 inches, called “sixteenth plate.” According to Camera-Wiki, these were cut from whole plate (8 1/2 x 6 1/2 inches) by the photographer. I question this, because the photographs contained on the plates that I found are carefully posed, but some of the images are out of focus. One of these is of a tug boat, with a name on the bow. While I can’t quite make out the name, the first three letters seem to be “LAN” and on the digital copy I could see that the letters were reversed. If the plates had originally been loaded into the camera the wrong way around, the image would appear reversed and the result would be displacement of the emulsion by the thickness of the glass, which would result in the image being out of focus. Elementary, my dear Watson. I have accordingly reversed the images in question. I would be interested to know what make or type of camera was used. Your thoughts would be appreciated.

I have tried to find some reference to the tugboat, without success. All I can deduce is that there appears to be the emblem of the RAE towing company on the funnel.

Where: One of the images is that of a corner shop, with the street name sign of “St Paul’s Road” visible. Using Google maps, I found what I think is the original shop, with a few wartime changes to it’s facade. It is located at the corner of St Paul’s and Church Roads, Wallesey, Liverpool. The photo of the tugboat would support this, as the Merseyside docks are just a short distance away.

Who: Now that’s the real question. Who were these people? Are they all members of the same family? They appear to be well fed and healthy, even if their clothing seems to be somewhat shabby. If the tugboat and the shop are of any significance, then perhaps the man of the house was a tugboat captain and the family also had a corner dairy shop? The clean shaven young man with his hands behind his back would seem to be in his late twenties, early thirties. Is he the man of the house, or the son-in-law? The lady with her hands behind her back and the wild hairstyle seems to be around the same age. Are they man and wife, parents of the three children in the group photo? In the right background of this photo is what appears to be either a “soil” bucket or a slop bucket, neither of which lends itself to a middle class neighbourhood. Is the young man with his hands on his hips, a younger brother? Is the young girl posing in the overcoat and hat also a sibling? We mustn’t forget that there could very well have been more glass plate negatives, which may have contained images of an older man and / or woman, the head of the family and his wife.

When: Invented by Dr. Richard L. Maddox and first made available in 1873, dry plate negatives were the first economically successful durable photographic medium. Dry plate negatives are typically on thinner glass plates, with a more evenly coated emulsion. Dry plate glass negatives were in common use between the 1880s and the late 1920s. For our purposes here, I am going to surmise that these images were taken around the year 1900.

I would like to try and trace the family if possible, even if just to give them back their long lost photos. If anyone has any info at all, let me know. Stranger things have happened.

Addendum: A photo of the tugboat has bee found showing the name as "Langarth" and a data sheet showing that the tugboat was launched in 1922 and operated in Liverpool. That means that these glass plate images must date from 1922 or later.

Further research shows that the street name on the wall of the shop may be "Paul Rd" and not "St Paul's Rd." There is a "Paul St" which it is now an industrial area. There is no "Paul Rd" on any map of the Merseyside area.

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Last edited by GrahamS on Tue May 04, 2021 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Glass Plate Negatives from the 1900's

Post by PFMcFarland »

On the tug, maybe it's "Langarth". On the St. Paul's Road building, if that is a remodel they put an awful lot into it. Might be a rebuild after a fire, using the same foundation. Possibly the Church Road side has been cut back due to widening the street.

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Re: Glass Plate Negatives from the 1900's

Post by GrahamS »

PFMcFarland wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:54 pm
On the tug, maybe it's "Langarth". On the St. Paul's Road building, if that is a remodel they put an awful lot into it. Might be a rebuild after a fire, using the same foundation. Possibly the Church Road side has been cut back due to widening the street.

PF
"Langarth" it is, Phil. Photo inserted above, with the data sheet showing that it was launched in 1922 and scrapped in 1964. That means that the photos must date from 1922 or later.

On the shop, buildings in this area were extensively damaged during the Blitz and subsequently re-built if there was a useable foundation. Any walls which were still sound were also used, but most were replaced and window features changed especially because of the shortage of glass. You are probably correct in that, if this is the original location of the shop, the post war rebuild may have altered the facade.
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Re: Glass Plate Negatives from the 1900's

Post by titrisol »

Could they be half a stereo plate?
48x107 was a common size in stereo cameras (verascope)
GrahamS wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:22 am


What: The plates measure 58mm x 43mm. The closest Imperial glass plate size that I can find was 1 5/8 x 2 1/8 inches, called “sixteenth plate.” According to Camera-Wiki, these were cut from whole plate (8 1/2 x 6 1/2 inches) by the photographer. I question this, because the photographs contained on the plates that I found are carefully posed, but some of the images are out of focus. One of these is of a tug boat, with a name on the bow. While I can’t quite make out the name, the first three letters seem to be “LAN” and on the digital copy I could see that the letters were reversed. If the plates had originally been loaded into the camera the wrong way around, the image would appear reversed and the result would be displacement of the emulsion by the thickness of the glass, which would result in the image being out of focus. Elementary, my dear Watson. I have accordingly reversed the images in question. I would be interested to know what make or type of camera was used. Your thoughts would be appreciated.


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Re: Glass Plate Negatives from the 1900's

Post by melek »

Oh, wow. Those are terrific. If you think about photography, it captures the briefest of moments in time.
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Re: Glass Plate Negatives from the 1900's

Post by PFMcFarland »

GrahamS wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 8:06 am
PFMcFarland wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:54 pm
On the tug, maybe it's "Langarth". On the St. Paul's Road building, if that is a remodel they put an awful lot into it. Might be a rebuild after a fire, using the same foundation. Possibly the Church Road side has been cut back due to widening the street.

PF
"Langarth" it is, Phil. Photo inserted above, with the data sheet showing that it was launched in 1922 and scrapped in 1964. That means that the photos must date from 1922 or later.

On the shop, buildings in this area were extensively damaged during the Blitz and subsequently re-built if there was a useable foundation. Any walls which were still sound were also used, but most were replaced and window features changed especially because of the shortage of glass. You are probably correct in that, if this is the original location of the shop, the post war rebuild may have altered the facade.
Those old steamers are the classic bests.

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Re: Glass Plate Negatives from the 1900's

Post by GrahamS »

titrisol wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 8:29 am
Could they be half a stereo plate?
48x107 was a common size in stereo cameras (verascope)
I doubt that anyone would go to the trouble of cutting stereo plates in half to separate the pairs oof images. No, I think these are sixteenth plate size.
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Re: Glass Plate Negatives from the 1900's

Post by titrisol »

Like you said, these were probably hand cut so sizes might vary somehow

GrahamS wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 11:41 am
I doubt that anyone would go to the trouble of cutting stereo plates in half to separate the pairs oof images. No, I think these are sixteenth plate size.
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Re: Glass Plate Negatives from the 1900's

Post by Brazile »

It is very easy to get the wrong side of commercial dry plates, as they did not have the equivalent of notch codes -- or, I should say, the ones I've handled have not. Kodak, at least, packed them in pairs, emulsion-inward, and there is a slight difference in texture that you can feel between the emulsion side and the plain glass side. But that's about it. So having done it myself, I think your surmise that the photographer got the plates reversed is likely to be right.

When I make my own plates, I always store them face-up, interleaved with paper, so I know what's what when it comes time to load my holders. I use paper safes for storage, which works well. I have considered adding a notch, but as I tend to reuse plates and don't always pour on the same side, I haven't bothered. My system works well enough for me.

You found some interesting old images, I love that sort of thing. I've managed to acquire a small collection of these as well, and have quite a pretty good pile of them at this point. Only a handful of them are in recognizable places, though; mostly are just people in the New England countryside, and houses in neighborhoods with few obvious landmarks or signs to suggest exactly where they are.

A few examples, first of one I was able to identify as the Parkman Bandstand in Boston Common:

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FF-094, Parkman Bandstand by Robert Brazile, on Flickr

and then one I can't identify, but really like (especially the faint blur of a passing carriage on the street):

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FF-084, Genteel life by Robert Brazile, on Flickr

and a third, a historic personage I was able to finally identify through some guesswork and a lot of persistent searching, Urbain Ledoux, an advocate for the unemployed in the 1920s and 1930s who called himself "Mr. Zero":

Image
FF-033, Boston City Hall crowd by Robert Brazile, on Flickr

On the last one, I got very lucky by recognizing the windows of Boston's "Old City Hall", which hasn't been in use since the brutalist pile that replaced it was erected in the 1960s. Staring at a lot of historic images of Boston politicians and guesswork about the event led to a lucky strike of the same guy visiting Washington D.C. about the same time.

Robert
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Re: Glass Plate Negatives from the 1900's

Post by GrahamS »

Interesting stuff, Robert. I tip my hat to you, for your diligence and expertise in coating your own plates. The image quality of the photos that you have posted here is quite superb. You don't say what size these are. I like the second photo as well. The blurred carriage going by really makes it a "slice of time." Thanks for sharing with us.
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